I know I'm not the most popular user at the moment, nor do I play OldCP anymore but I figured I might as well put my two cents into this.
What happened at Flames trial represents exactly what's wrong with OldCP. We can't just bend backward to a user because they are popular. Sled completely disregarded the Criminal Code, that myself, Chelsey, Dice, and many others spent time writing.
The reason we formulated the Criminal Code was because of incidents similar to this. Users not receiving fair punishment for the same crimes.

Loki also acted biased in the trial using over emotional arguments to defend attempted murder which under the criminal code: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1RQdPDFq7DjZ19S_7UQE2GR5O99O__wdlN8sY2oQwbB0/edit
counts for Class B Murder which is punishable by: "the execution of the main account and probation of 8 weeks, by means of weapon banishment, rank banishment, and potential isle banishment."

I think it's most appropriate to retrial Flame and follow the criminal code correctly this time.

another admin can trial him then. I am sick and tired of being the only person to do trials while the others refuse to do it. I took the advice of the wise moth because I don't know CZ lore as well as other people and I trusted Loki but you're right I wanted to use the criminal code but I was told to pardon him.

I am tired of being trashed on because someone is not happy and there is no respect for how I feel when I don't even like trialing people in the first place, I just do it because noone else will.

Sleddy wrote on 29th June 2020, 01:23 PM:

another admin can trial him then. I am sick and tired of being the only person to do trials while the others refuse to do it.

Why have an admin do it? Let someone who wrote the criminal code do it. Orbay?

weend2014 wrote on 29th June 2020, 01:25 PM:

Quote:

Sleddy wrote on 29th June 2020, 01:23 PM:
another admin can trial him then. I am sick and tired of being the only person to do trials while the others refuse to do it.

Why have an admin do it? Let someone who wrote the criminal code do it. Orbay??

1) we've never had someone that wasn't an admin do a trial before so that's up to the emperor and empress
2) wouldn't that be bias if the person who got attacked and was the victim be the judge of this person's fate. we can use other people who weren't involved

Maybe train an extremely trusted user who knows the criminal code well to be a judge. Maybe have like 3 non-admin judges? I'm not sure who the people would be, though.

edit: please make a page on forums that is full of documents so that everyone can find them. i'm not sure that loki or wilf knew about the criminal code.

Sleddy wrote on 29th June 2020, 01:28 PM:

Quote:

weend2014 wrote on 29th June 2020, 01:25 PM:
Quote:
Sleddy wrote on 29th June 2020, 01:23 PM:
another admin can trial him then. I am sick and tired of being the only person to do trials while the others refuse to do it.

Why have an admin do it? Let someone who wrote the criminal code do it. Orbay??
1) we've never had someone that wasn't an admin do a trial before so that's up to the emperor and empress
2) wouldn't that be bias if the person who got attacked and was the victim be the judge of this person's fate. we can use other people who weren't involved

Clearly bias wasn't a problem during the actual trial.

Sleddy wrote on 29th June 2020, 01:28 PM:

Quote:

weend2014 wrote on 29th June 2020, 01:25 PM:
Quote:
Sleddy wrote on 29th June 2020, 01:23 PM:
another admin can trial him then. I am sick and tired of being the only person to do trials while the others refuse to do it.

Why have an admin do it? Let someone who wrote the criminal code do it. Orbay??
1) we've never had someone that wasn't an admin do a trial before so that's up to the emperor and empress
2) wouldn't that be bias if the person who got attacked and was the victim be the judge of this person's fate. we can use other people who weren't involved

I'd like to think I'm capable enough to cast away my bias if I were to actually trial Flame, seeing as I've literally been Emperor Regent at one point. Plus, even if I were to trial Flame, the biggest punishment I could give Flame is execution, which would literally be me doing my job and following the Criminal Code, seeing as there's an overwhelming amount of evidence that the attempted murder was intentional.

But that's not the point of this post.

The Criminal Code was specifically made to help you during trials. Each crime has been listed, along with what classifies as that crime, and the punishments, so that you have a much easier time making a verdict during a trial. I highly suggest you start paying attention to it from now on. It'll help you a lot.

This also ties back to the same thing I keep telling you: You don't have enough help.

Due to the lack of trust put by Damen into the community, there's far too few admins to actually help the game. If there was another Rank 5 to help you out, things would be much easier.

And even if that's not an option, here's another one: Appoint a Judge and Council

You're already too busy with arming and ranking people. You can't do it all at once.

Hell, I can help you. I have firsthand experience with all of this, and I already helped you quite a bit in regards to trials, rank 5 and its commands.

Regardless of what you decide to do, a re-trial must be made and proper justice must be served.

I hate admins

Sleddy wrote on 29th June 2020, 01:23 PM:

another admin can trial him then. I am sick and tired of being the only person to do trials while the others refuse to do it. I took the advice of the wise moth because I don't know CZ lore as well as other people and I trusted Loki but you're right I wanted to use the criminal code but I was told to pardon him.
I am tired of being trashed on because someone is not happy and there is no respect for how I feel when I don't even like trialing people in the first place, I just do it because noone else will.

Me and Chelsey would do the trial if you really don't want to. I thought you wanted to, never heard another side of it. Nevertheless, the trial will NOT happen again. Sled's decision will stand. In the future, royal judges and wise ones should use the criminal code.

However, if the royal judge wishes to show mercy (as it is a DSGHQ value), they should pay the debt off by some other means. For example if someone deserves to die but the royal judge wishes to show mercy, someone else must die willingly for them and a smaller punishment can be given to the accused.

Damen wrote on 29th June 2020, 06:10 PM:

Quote:

Sleddy wrote on 29th June 2020, 01:23 PM:
another admin can trial him then. I am sick and tired of being the only person to do trials while the others refuse to do it. I took the advice of the wise moth because I don't know CZ lore as well as other people and I trusted Loki but you're right I wanted to use the criminal code but I was told to pardon him.
I am tired of being trashed on because someone is not happy and there is no respect for how I feel when I don't even like trialing people in the first place, I just do it because noone else will.

Me and Chelsey would do the trial if you really don't want to. I thought you wanted to, never heard another side of it. Nevertheless, the trial will NOT happen again. Sled's decision will stand. In the future, royal judges and wise ones should use the criminal code.
However, if the royal judge wishes to show mercy (as it is a DSGHQ value), they should pay the debt off by some other means. For example if someone deserves to die but the royal judge wishes to show mercy, someone else must die willingly for them and a smaller punishment can be given to the accused.

thank you damen. I just don't feel comfortable anymore and people never treat trials seriously anymore and its all crazy when I do them. It is hard for me to keep up with CZ lore which is why I put my trust into the wise moths a lot. I had offered Chelsey a chance to trial once or twice in the past, including Flame's trial and she refused, and you are always busy so I kept doing the trials. That second paragraph is really interesting and I didn't know about it, pretty cool.

Someone else to serve as judge or something could be an interesting idea. At least help take the load off of you guys.

I mean, we have the Wise Moth Council that is currently serving as the "council" part of this whole judge idea that I see being created in the comments. I currently have trial rotations with my council that allows all of the members to have a turn sharing their wisdom. Before there were any trials when I was appointed as Grand Moth Wise, I had informed all of my members about the Criminal Code, and to use it when giving the judge their opinon and verdict. I don't really know if we need a whole council since we already have the moths who could be seen a bit more and have their verdicts considered, it seems like this verdict was the only one a moth made that was taken seriously that there seems to be a problem with, but that could just be because of the opinion of the verdict which is fine. I think adding someone just to serve as a judge would be a great idea.

Damen wrote on 29th June 2020, 06:10 PM:

Quote:

Sleddy wrote on 29th June 2020, 01:23 PM:
another admin can trial him then. I am sick and tired of being the only person to do trials while the others refuse to do it. I took the advice of the wise moth because I don't know CZ lore as well as other people and I trusted Loki but you're right I wanted to use the criminal code but I was told to pardon him.
I am tired of being trashed on because someone is not happy and there is no respect for how I feel when I don't even like trialing people in the first place, I just do it because noone else will.

Me and Chelsey would do the trial if you really don't want to. I thought you wanted to, never heard another side of it. Nevertheless, the trial will NOT happen again. Sled's decision will stand. In the future, royal judges and wise ones should use the criminal code.
However, if the royal judge wishes to show mercy (as it is a DSGHQ value), they should pay the debt off by some other means. For example if someone deserves to die but the royal judge wishes to show mercy, someone else must die willingly for them and a smaller punishment can be given to the accused.

Why should someone else die for the crimes of another? What kind of a justice system is that?

How is it fair that Kace, who accidentally killed someone due to saber range gets executed, but Flame, who intentionally attacked me and other innocents, gets away scoot-free?

I don't know if this is a case of incompetence, or if no admin can be bothered to do a re-trial. But I'm calling you and your "justice system" out.

Either follow the goddamn Criminal Code, or get actual people who will.