Hello everyone,
So I recently watched Damen’s video ( give it a watch if you haven’t already: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujOkDRgnuow ) and upon watching it, I decided to make a forums post because some of the things Damen said really stuck out to me, and not exactly in a good way.

To keep the reading experience convenient for you, the reader, I have stopped and re-played Damen’s video over and over so I can get exact quotes from the video, and write my thoughts about them underneath. (TL;DR at the bottom). So, here goes:

Quotes:

Quote:

With Sled, and people like Majorhalo and Wilfred, these people are very valuable to me, because I see something in them that I really value.
I either see them as very loyal, I either seem as very humble people.

This has been a common thing with Damen for a while, but I feel that now would be a good time to address it: The term “loyalty” and what it means to Damen.
Now, what is loyalty?



“A strong feeling of support or allegiance”

There is a big difference between showing support for someone and being a yes-man.

What is a yes-man?

A yes-man is someone who accepts someone else’s thoughts, regardless of what they are and what they actually feel about it. We also call this “blind devotion”, a dangerous trait to instill upon others. A “loyal” person should support you out of free will, not because you placed that thought into them.

It’s also become a re-occurring issue, where Damen would ask for blind devotion from someone and call them “disloyal” if they were to disagree. If you force someone to agree with everything you say or do, you become an oppressor, or in the context of OldCP, a dictator.

Quote:

But the reason why maybe some of them are there is because they have something in here *points at heart*, that is more valuable than what is in here *points at head*

Good intentions are always a trait to look for when hiring someone, but it shouldn’t be the only one. You hire someone who clearly has both good intentions and the capability to do that job. Even if they don’t have experience, they must show desire to do that job. And if they need support or guidance, you train them. You can’t pick up a good person off the street, and make them a businessman if they have no desire or lack the commitment needed to be one.

Quote:

There are people who are very qualified, who are well respected by everyone else but, what appears to the eyes of most people, y’know what they see, isn’t quite what I’m actually seeing.
Someone might be super qualified, someone might make a great admin, but I see in them, maybe a “rebellious tendency”, or I see in them, something that they’re involved in that I’m not comfortable with, or I see in them attachments to people who I don’t consider trustworthy or reliable or loyal people.

“Rebellious tendency” is a very vague term. Just because someone doesn't 100% agree with you or 100% stick to community guidelines every time doesn’t mean they have “rebellious tendencies”. Take Gamer for example. He didn’t exactly have the best history in this game (attacking people, pulling off heists, etc), but he changed, and for the better. And is he a 100% by-the-book person? Of course not. Nobody is. But he follows the guidelines he was given, respects the limits set onto him by Damen and responsibly uses the commands entrusted to him.

There are very capable people in this community who are quite possibly being overlooked just because they tend to make some noise every once in a while. Being a bit “rebellious” is a good thing. It means that they possess free will, and loyalty done with free will is superior to that of forced loyalty.

Quote:

And when I give someone a rank, and when I trust them with something, they become a project, just like a game to me. I can work on them. I can develop them.

This is a very wrong logic to work with. While you can influence someone to become a better person, you cannot forcefully shape someone into something that they’re not meant to be. As Mike stated, people will only change and develop if THEY want to, not if you want them to.

Quote:

Major may not seem like a fully complete project yet, but he is gonna be in a few years.

I have no problems with Major as a person, and I can see that his heart is in the right place, but he currently does not place enough time or interest into OldCP to be a rank 5. Could he be a Mod? Sure. But with the current state of things, Majorhalo is holding a rank 5 spot that someone else with more interest in the game could fill.

Quote:

Wilf, the same.

Quote:

I’m not just gonna *attempt at a whistle* get rid of them because someone else looks quite good right now.

Nobody wanted Sled to be demoted. What we wanted her to do, along with those who incorrectly influenced her, was to acknowledge that she made a mistake, take accountability for it, and apologize. We all make mistakes, but we must own up to them.


TL;DR
1) Re-consider what “loyalty” means to you. There’s a monumental difference between being loyal and having blind devotion. We’re a game, not a cult.
2) Hiring someone for a rank takes more than just good intentions. They also have to possess either the capability to perform said rank, or have the commitment to learn how to perform it.
3) People are individuals, not projects. If you treat them as such, they’ll feel less as a human, and more of an object for you to shape into your liking.
4) Encourage free will. We play this game to have fun and make choices. If we’re forced to be “loyal” and agree with everything that the Empire says, then there’s no point to any of this.
5) If you see that someone has the capability to perform a rank really well, train them for it first. Don’t just straight-up give them the rank, and expect them to learn the details later. Especially if it’s something as crucial as rank 5.
6) Nobody wanted Sled or anyone involved in the trial to be demoted. They made a mistake, and all we wanted for them is to acknowledge it, own up to it, and apologize. We all make mistakes, but we must own up to them.

Final Thoughts (To Damen):
The video was clearly made with good intentions, but some of the messages you gave across seemed really weird. I hope you look into those.

I suggest that instead of picking a small group of people and trying to constantly improve them, broaden your range and look for other people in the community who both have good intentions and have the capability for a rank.

I also suggest, as do other people in the community, that you, even if temporarily, remove Majorhalo from Rank 5, and teach him how to perform his duties as a Rank 5.

And who should be his replacement? Simple: Zes

He has every trait that you could possibly look for:
- He’s loyal due to free will.
- He’s active on OldCP.
- He shows great interest with other users and doesn’t hesitate to communicate with them.
- He is great at designing, and thus can double as a Designer for OldCP.
- He’s dastardly handsome.

I hope you take this post to help better improve yourself, and I hope you consider my suggestions.

Cheers.

Major used to clock in like 4 hours a month back in March and April, but in May he got 11 hours, and this month so far has 16 or 19 hours, being the most active admin so far. He's changed and I've noticed that he doesn't AFK in popular anymore (of course, I've only seen him like 5 times this month).

Dice wrote on 30th June 2020, 04:39 PM:

being the most active admin so far.

Keep in mind that in-game time is only one metric, and perhaps not the most useful one.

amazing post bro

and not like i haven't been an admin on oldcp before :o

This a great post and you put my thoughts on his video into much bigger and better words. My only concern about this post is what you mean by blind loyalty? You address it, but you don't back it up. I often see some of the admins disagree with Damen very publically or privately to very rarely get called out by Damen for it. Could you possibly cite examples of where blind loyalty was more desirable to Damen than free will?

Other than that, great post.

Jibreel1024 wrote on 30th June 2020, 04:25 PM:

You really have a lot of time on your hands

weend2014 wrote on 30th June 2020, 04:51 PM:

Quote:

Jibreel1024 wrote on 30th June 2020, 04:25 PM:
You really have a lot of time on your hands

Ouch y u roasting me im crying! stop bullying deadass

Dice wrote on 30th June 2020, 04:39 PM:

Major used to clock in like 4 hours a month back in March and April, but in May he got 11 hours, and this month so far has 16 or 19 hours, being the most active admin so far. He's changed and I've noticed that he doesn't AFK in popular anymore (of course, I've only seen him like 5 times this month).

I agree he has had more freedom after school ended. it was probably hard with quarantine to focus on school when everything is online too...

For what I define as loyalty, look at Tennis, Chelsey, Sled (to name a few). They are anything but yes men. They sure as hell whip me into shape when I'm wrong but at the same time they're not quick to leave me to public embarrassment to gain favour with other people, rather they privately speak their mind to me in private and support me in public in order to maintain the public's support whilst fixing my actions. (Damage Limitation)

They make a realistic assessment of me, remembering I'm prone to mistakes as anyone is, and use every opportunity to help me not to destroy me for the favour of others.

I see.

Damen wrote on 30th June 2020, 04:58 PM:

For what I define as loyalty, look at Tennis, Chelsey, Sled (to name a few). They are anything but yes men. They sure as hell whip me into shape when I'm wrong but at the same time they're not quick to leave me to public embarrassment to gain favour with other people, rather they privately speak their mind to me in private and support me in public in order to maintain the public's support whilst fixing my actions. (Damage Limitation)
They make a realistic assessment of me, remembering I'm prone to mistakes as anyone is, and use every opportunity to help me not to destroy me for the favour of others.

I’m glad that you aren’t afraid to be whipped into shape by your admins, but doesn’t Sled publicly come out against you a lot?

Supermikey97 wrote on 30th June 2020, 05:24 PM:

Quote:

Damen wrote on 30th June 2020, 04:58 PM:
For what I define as loyalty, look at Tennis, Chelsey, Sled (to name a few). They are anything but yes men. They sure as hell whip me into shape when I'm wrong but at the same time they're not quick to leave me to public embarrassment to gain favour with other people, rather they privately speak their mind to me in private and support me in public in order to maintain the public's support whilst fixing my actions. (Damage Limitation)
They make a realistic assessment of me, remembering I'm prone to mistakes as anyone is, and use every opportunity to help me not to destroy me for the favour of others.

I’m glad that you aren’t afraid to be whipped into shape by your admins, but doesn’t Sled publicly come out against you a lot?

Its happened but it is completely forgiven and we're working better now to deal with this kind of thing. Tennis and Chelsey have been very good at it over the years.

i don't care enough about the topic to read any of this but i'll like it anyways

Damen wrote on 30th June 2020, 04:58 PM:

For what I define as loyalty, look at Tennis, Chelsey, Sled (to name a few). They are anything but yes men. They sure as hell whip me into shape when I'm wrong but at the same time they're not quick to leave me to public embarrassment to gain favour with other people, rather they privately speak their mind to me in private and support me in public in order to maintain the public's support whilst fixing my actions. (Damage Limitation)
They make a realistic assessment of me, remembering I'm prone to mistakes as anyone is, and use every opportunity to help me not to destroy me for the favour of others.

I tried to reach you via dm to discuss this issue, but I figured making a forums post would increase the chances of you seeing it. This post wasn't made to bash on you, it was made to give constructive criticism and give my own opinions.

That being said, you didn't touch up on the points I mentioned, or the advice I gave you. You only responded to the "yes-man" part. Yes, Tennis, Chelsey and Sled aren't yes-men, but

1) Major and Wilf are still pretty impressionable, and from the way they act around you, I could tell they were turning to yes-men.

2) Do you spare time from your day to listen to them? I've often heard from both Sled and Chelsey that they often have trouble getting a reply from you. Maybe every once in a while, you can gather the admins and just ask them "what's up w/ the game?"

Or better yet, you can hold occasional sessions in which people can voice their concerns, or if that's too chaotic for you, you can make a forums post, asking people to voice their concerns and opinions on the game.

I also hope you consider my idea of assigning Zes as a rank 5 admin. He has Admin experience, and would make an ideal replacement while you're busy training Majorhalo.